Laura 0:00
Welcome to divinely grounded a podcast inviting you into sacred presence for real time alchemy tether to this awe inspiring space of conscious conversation so you can be activated by the electric exchange of raw conscious relationship witness where you're being called to polish the edges of your discernment in relationship with yourself and with others.
Jenna 0:25
Join us as divinely grounded plants fresh seeds of possibility to discover the purity of your unfolding truth. Together, we will transmute everyday experience into profound growth. I'm Jenna Greengold, the conscious Alchemist,
Laura 0:40
and I'm Laura mazzotta, an Akashic therapist. Sit back, relax and receive as new insights. Enter your awareness during these illuminating conversations. Welcome to episode four of divinely grounded today, we are going to be talking about shame, and I'm going to turn this over to Jenna, because she was having an experience with shame that she wanted to share.
Jenna 1:10
Yeah, so I wanted to bring this up just in this space, because I wanted to talk a bit about where it presents. Because I know when I had brought it up to you, you said, Where do you feel it? Do you feel it in your in the mind? Do you feel it in the body? And so I kind of wanted to bring up the different textures of shame, and then how we alchemize those when we feel them in different spaces, like if you were to feel it in your mind, how can we provide tools and just different ways to alchemize that versus when we feel it in the body. And that's kind of what came up for me when, when I was thinking about this, because when you said it to me, I was like, well, it feels like it's in my mind, but I kind of feel felt at the time, some of it like in my gut. And I don't, I think that's just nervous system me shit, right? Like when it's there to me, but yeah, so I just wanted to throw that into the space and see what happens.
Laura 2:08
So I think when we talk about it being in the mind, there's a couple ways to go with that, because we can allow ourselves to detach from the narrative in the mind and just look at his energy, at it as energy, and be in space with it, and kind of let it move as we're just in still presence, meditative space, bringing in source with it. There are times, though, especially if it's sticky, that it desires to be seen the narrative in the mind, and that's where we can bring it to a conversational space, or, more importantly, a space in 3d form, like a journal, right? Like writing it down, letting the narrative be seen. And sometimes letting the narrative be seen between you and another person can become more activating, or it can become something that it doesn't need to become, when really it's just a narrative that desires to have its own space and to move in its own way. And so you're not pushing the mind away and saying, This is stupid, and I'm frustrated and I'm I'm I'm disregarding the narrative. Sometimes the narrative wants to spend some time with you, so it's like, All right, we're just gonna give it some space in my journal and kind of automatic, right? Let it flow however it's meant to flow. And I think that when it comes forward in the body, it is it's energy either way, it can be both. Like you said, it can be both. And I think that sometimes when we clear the mind in either of those ways we just talked about, that body sensation can dissipate, for sure, but if the body's body sensation does not dissipate, then it's about coming into that sensation as energy and being present with the energy. And to be honest, I think that a lot of the times that happens because it's not ours, I think that we can hold that energy in the body because it's from a past life, or our ancestors or society or whatever.
Jenna 4:06
I heavily agree with that, with it not being ours, because when things because, like you've said in the past, you know, or you say this a lot, and I love this is the fact that our energy knows our bodies and our souls know what to do with our energy and know what to do with, with things that are ours. It knows how to alchemize that. So when things get sticky, it's like, is this really yours? Even when it's in the mind, yeah. And then we make it ours by attaching the narrative, right?
Laura 4:33
And I think sometimes we do that because of it, especially when there's, like, this societal understanding of how things should be based on this point in your life, based on the kind of relationship you're in, based on your sexuality, based on whatever it is, right? Then you can have a narrative that comes up in the mind that almost shames you for not being where you're quote, unquote supposed to be. And. And yes, that presents in the mind because you're choosing to do something unconventional, or you're choosing to carve a new pathway, or follow your soul's guidance, follow your natural energy in a way that people may not have seen before, or people in the spaces that you mingle have not seen before or are not comfortable with. And in that way, it becomes this narrative in your head that you don't realize is based on societal expectation. But when it's sticky and it won't move, it's like, okay, I know how to move energy. Like, I know how to move this stuff. Let me just be with this question of how much of this is actually mine, and allowing yourself to drain what is not
Jenna 5:41
when that drains, do you see it draining through the body?
Laura 5:44
I think it depends. Usually, if it's a narrative, it's an energy that's kind of popping up in my field, outside of the body, and then I just kind of allow those bubbles to pop, or I attach a cord to them and let them drain down to the earth. Or if it's in the body, I will usually breathe or drain down out the root space. Sometimes I'll be guided by my guides to drain from the heart down the shoulders, arms, out the fingertips. Sometimes it's out the ears. So I kind of connect to spirit and allow that energy to be guided out of the body. And sometimes it's not meant to leave the body. Sometimes it's actually meant to swirl and move into a different space within the body and take on a different form or fuel me in another area. It's that's cool, because it's kind of like parts work, right? Like one part that might feel wonky is feeding another part, you know, that actually desires the richness of the energy that's held there, even if it might mean something different.
Jenna 6:46
Yeah, and it's kind of like, you know what we had talked about yesterday with, what is the the true underlying energy of that? Like, is it really shame, or will it reveal itself to be something else in your body? Like, if it desires to stay in your body, watch it alchemize into something else entirely, that fuels you to where it's not shame that desires to be in your body. It's something else, right?
Laura 7:07
And so what is shame like? What does it even feel like? For me? Shame feels like heaviness. It feels like nausea. It feels like nausea, big time, like a thicker, foggier guilt. It feels like smallness. It feels like not good enough. It feels like I fucked up again. Where should I go wrong?
Jenna 7:37
Yeah, no, I'm resonating with this. Yes,
Laura 7:39
yeah, yeah. That's what it feels like to me. Same, absolutely the same. Which really, where does that come from? Self doubt, yes. So it's like, do you want to be in a space of self doubt? I don't want to be in a space of self doubt. So it's okay, where? Where is this shame, inviting me to be more confident in what I was feeling prior to the shame arriving, to be more convicted in what was arriving for me, to be more present with what was arriving for me, knowing that there's a fractal of my truth within it. It
Jenna 8:17
feels like a sharpening, yeah, like a tool for just for sharpening discernment, right?
Laura 8:23
Because really, when we end up in shame, we're outsourcing parts of ourselves. We're outsourcing parts of our truth, handing it to someone else or a situation or a narrative or a perspective, either internally or externally, on what we're thinking or what we're feeling, and we're handing that over to not our own truth, not our own self integration, refinement, clarity, discernment, like you're talking about instead, we're kind of handing it over like, you know, bowing our heads. Yeah, I was a bad girl. Here you go, instead of, instead of being like, okay, yeah, thanks for the invitation, right? Like I'm being invited into claiming, like the the tiniest little shift in who I am, how I want to operate, what I want, how I want to hold my truth, whether you or the situation agrees with me or not, right? It's stretching your edges. It's coming into more self trust.
Jenna 9:29
Yeah, absolutely, and trusting how you desire to be seen. And it's like people are so preoccupied with their own selves that they are not paying attention to you. Because we want people to be paying attention to us. We want attention to us. We want people to be like noticing us, right? It's just like a human feeling of being like, I want to be received. We get so caught up in how people are seeing us that they're watching us. If so, we have to act accordingly. And it feels like the same type of thread of just. Letting that go and trusting in what you're drawn to, trusting yourself, trusting how you feel, and not making yourself feel shame or guilt for having those feelings and for having those desires.
Laura 10:19
Letting them exist in their own right, and not even having to share them with somebody else, and also not feeling the need to justify or prove to another person why you feel the way you feel, or why it makes sense that you feel the way you feel. And there has been a lot of that energy coming up with this eclipse at the time of this recording with other people, with seeking other people's approval, right? And it's ultimately, it's funny, because you talk about how other people aren't paying attention to us because they're kind of caught up in their damn selves. I think yes, but I also think yeah, people are paying attention to us, the people who are either looking to us as an energy that they desire to cultivate within themselves, or an energy that reflects an aspect of them that they may not desire to be with or they may not desire to sit With. So if it is somebody who is in disapproval energy, then you don't really want them in your life anyway, because they're not people who are willing to alchemize and conscious relationship and to come into Conscious discussion and understanding of what you're going through. And so I think that it's it's about what you said, which is coming into that, that space with what you're feeling as you're allowed to be here, saying that to the feeling you're allowed to be here, you know, and you don't even have to attach a narrative to it, or maybe you do, but you're going to be in space with that, like we talked about earlier, whether it's in mind or whether it's in the body. You're going to give it space, and you're going to tell yourself that any aspects of you that come forward are allowed and they're okay and they're soft and they're gracious, and they're invitations and they're textures of yourself.
Jenna 12:10
I really like that perspective of looking at these things like shame as just soft invitations into self, trust, into grace and to becoming and to holding.
Laura 12:25
I think it's the opposite of what we can tend to do when we get into shame, which is, criticize ourselves, harp on ourselves, doubt ourselves, question ourselves. So I think the real question here, when we come into a space of shame is, you know, where do you feel clear, and that's both in your body and in your mind. Like, what are you really clearly confident about? And what are you being invited to clarify right now? And sometimes that what you're being invited to clarify is just a softer presence with you, deeper devotion to you, to the natural grace that's extended to us by the universe, letting ourselves be held in that space. Sometimes we need to do that while we're tantruming. That's beautiful. So how does this feel? Does it feel complete to you?
Jenna 13:18
It does it feels really good. How does it feel to you? It feels
Laura 13:23
opening and it feels strengthening. And I think that if we could see shame as that as a gateway to opening, to strengthening, to clarifying, we would interact with it in a much more curious light, and a much more like a spirit guide being sent to us, like the shame spirit guide. You know, if Archangel Michael comes to you're not, like, what the hell you doing here? Dude? Oh, hey, dude, what's up? Like, what do you got for me today, you know? Or how am I meant to serve? Or you're just presence with that energy and allowing it to express through you and arrive through you. And in the same way, it's like that shame spirit guy comes in and it's like, Oh, hey, you know, this is cool. I know I got a gateway here. You know that's, that's, that's hard, man, though, to get out of that human sauce when you're in that space, which is why, you know, isn't that the ultimate goal for us? Yeah, that would be great. But I think that it's having patience with ourselves to get to that point, and just letting ourselves be held and use some of these practices we talked about in the interim, knowing that we'll get there as we continue to meet ourselves in any space, yeah,
Jenna 14:35
but not demonizing ourselves for having any of this arrive.
Laura 14:38
Mm, because then that just brings on, like, tertiary shame. And like, all the all the shame, all the shame, it just compounds it, and then your brain looks for, like, all the evidence from the past as to why you suck,
Jenna 14:54
yes,
Laura 14:54
and why you're unreliable and your word doesn't matter. And that's really why this is all. Definitely about self trust. If you can keep coming back to like, what did I trust enough in myself to share this in the first place? What did I trust enough in myself to catalyze the shame reaction? Because there was something there that activated, something within you that you trusted enough to offer it attention. So if that's the case, it's like, Where, where is that? Where was that trust already coming forward within myself, and then at some point in this process, you derailed from the self trust, whether it was looking for approval from somebody else, trying to justify it to yourself, whatever it was. At some point in this process, you derailed from that, but it actually started with, oh, I have a sensation, and I feel this sensation and I trust it. There's clarity in this sensation enough so that you attended to it in one way or another.
Jenna 15:53
It can be so much more simple than we make it,
Laura 15:55
all right, everybody. So let us know how this felt to you, what this feels like in your body and your mind, we can't wait to receive your reception of this conversation. Thank you, Jenna, for bringing this forward. Yeah, we will see you on the next episode. Bye for now.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
