Laura 0:00
Welcome back to another special episode of the Akashic musings Podcast. I'm here today with Sam Nelson, and I'm so excited to introduce her to you, and even more importantly, her mission and her service that she's offering to the world. Sam and I have known each other for years, and I'm so excited to reconnect here so she can talk about neurodivergence. If neurodivergence is a word that has been pinging in your field or something that you've been wanting to learn more about, this is the woman to go to, and this is the space to receive all of her brilliance. So Sam, welcome and thank you for being here, and I would love for you to share what prompted you to start talking about neurodivergence and create this incredible podcast that you've been putting out into the world.
Sam 0:47
Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and reconnect with you and share about this. So this all started three years ago when some friends of our were starting their diagnosis journey for ADHD, and we're talking about it, and me and Scott kind of start looking at each other like, that's interesting. That sounds familiar, that sounds familiar. I relate to that too, and we had this ongoing battle of him telling me, like, Are you even listening to me? Are you even paying attention to me because I talked to you, and then 10 minutes later, it like, you have no idea what I said. And I was like, Yeah, I know, and I'm not doing it on purpose, I promise. And I know you take it personally. And like, finally got to the point where he was just so frustrated, and I don't blame him, and I was like, I think I need to get tested. I was like, I I'm really I don't even realize I'm doing it. So I made an appointment. I got my ADHD diagnosis at 33 then we realized, yep, Scott's got some traits too. So he got diagnosed. And then my oldest daughter got diagnosed, so then my youngest daughter got diagnosed, and it was like, oh, okay, this, this is starting to make sense now. And we started to see things kind of through a new lens, and I love to learn. I think that is part of my ADHD is like, I'm always like, Oh, what about this? What about that? What about this? So this is one of those things that I just kind of took it and ran with it and wanted to absorb all that I could, because it was like opening a whole new world. And the way I see myself, the way I see other people that I just never knew before, I was like, oh, that's why I struggled to finish projects. That's why I like, leave my cupboard doors open like, you don't realize that other people do some of this stuff. You think, oh, it's just me. Oh, it's just like, my my quirks, my silly things that I do, like, oh. So a lot of other people on social media were sharing their stories, and I was like, Oh, I relate to that. I relate to that. Oh, I do that too, even after my diagnosis. So started listening to all the podcasts, reading all the books, and you know, from ADHD, you kind of start learning more about the other the other things under the neurodivergent umbrella. And started to realize that my husband was probably also autistic, and that just made so much sense. And I talked to him about it, and he was like, Yeah, nope, that that sounds like me. And was super open to it. And you know, he was in a pretty deep place of burnout for the last couple years. Like, needed a lot more support from me. Just daily, things were hard for him, and I see this word called autistic burnout, and I kind of show him like a description of, like, what, what other autistic people are saying that is and he's like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I feel all of that. And I was like, Dude, this would make so much sense. Like, you're not just depressed, you're not just, like, having a hard time. You might not have the capacity to even figure out where to get tested or like the process of that, but if you'll let me help you, I will, I will do what I can. So that was kind of a whole long, drawn out journey just to get an assessment for an adult. It's pretty hard to find, but after a few providers and. Some dismissive ones along the way, just this summer, he finally got that diagnosis and called me crying, and was like, I can't thank you enough for doing this for me, because I finally feel like I can understand myself better and stop shaming myself. It's not that easy, right? But he's like, I've been so hard on myself for so many years of why can't I do this? Why is this hard for me? Why? What's wrong with my brain? And now we have some something that can make sense of that, and it's not a personal failing. So while having my own experience with ADHD and raising two kids that are and one of mine is very likely also autistic, also being married to somebody who has a very different experience than I do with, you know, their capacity. And, you know, we share a lot of things, but a lot of things are different. So kind of coming at this angle of personally in a relationship as a parent, I wanted to learn about all these different ways and how we could make life easier, how we could make life better for all of us. What accommodations can we make? How do we need to advocate for ourselves? How do we need to advocate at school and really just thinking about Scott's journey, specifically with with his mental health, just because it has been a struggle for him his whole life, to go 38 years and really not understand some of these things, I was like, I would love to create something where we talk about that, because a lot of things I was seeing like they were they were helpful and they were relatable. A lot of them were funny, which is great. I was like, and a lot of the stuff is hard, a lot of this stuff is is deep and exhausting, and people don't see the burnout, not like I've seen him experience it. And I wanted to share that perspective as well and not just sugarcoat it. Like, Hi, I have ADHD. Ha, yeah, I'm autistic. Like it. It makes life hard sometimes, and I think people need to talk more about that. So I was like, well, let's create a space where, where we do that, all the all the all the great things, all the not so great things. And we decided to make a podcast, and here we are.
Laura 7:57
I love this. Thank you for this. I think what you're pointing out is so important for people to receive our own diagnosis, because in my world, I've moved away so much from mental health diagnosis working in the spiritual world, and yet don't refute it, because it also offers a serious validation, like you're saying, of, oh, there's not something wrong, like I get it, like I can understand myself better, and that is a brilliant reason for diagnosis, right? It's like, yeah, it gives us a place to tether and to land and to start to gather information and understanding so that I can see myself and others differently. It reminds me of when my youngest had severe food allergies when she was really little, when she was an infant. And I was like, I had no idea about any of this stuff, and I was so grateful to just dive into learning everything I could about food allergies, because my it expands your scope, right? It helps you understand people so much better. And I'm like, Oh, I can help these kids, and I can help these kids, and I can support these kids in this and, you know, help in the classroom and then the school for understanding this stuff. And you know, it's, it's, it's beautiful to to expand our knowledge of just humanity in general, and like, be more compassionate towards one another, and offer ourselves more flexibility and extension. And I think that's what you're describing that's happened in your family just by understanding one another, and now you're extending it to the collective and to other people coming in and receiving this. So I do have a couple of questions for you. One is, how would you describe autistic burnout? Like, what does that look like?
Sam 9:41
So if I were to describe it solely from like my point of view, and include what Scott has told me about, you know, what he's experiencing, what he's feeling, you know, at first, it kind of just looked like depression. And. Really not having a lot of energy coming home from work and, you know, either just falling asleep or wanting to just be on video games, which has always been a thing for him, but it was more and more and more his mood was just kind of shit. And it was, more than just, you're just sad right now, his functioning was more limited, like he needed more daily supports from me to just like, Hey, did you plug your phone in before he went to bed, did you set your alarm? Because he would just pass out, like, just crash. He he was, he was sleeping a lot. And once I realized there was a word for this, and we kind of understood that better, he started to share some of his experience of feeling like he's been able to mask some of his autistic traits for a while, and finally get to this point where he's like, I can't do it anymore. I am so exhausted. He's like, once he could articulate some of that to me, because we had understanding and we had language. You know, he shared with things with me that I had no idea. He's like you don't know what I go through when I'm having a conversation with someone and I am analyzing 10 different things at the same time. How close am I to them? Am I making enough eye contact? Am I talking loud enough? Am I interrupting them like, so mentally exhausting? Yeah, oh, yeah, oh. And he's like, I'm just I'm exhausted from life, because I've been trying to do this for so long, and I can't do it anymore. And it really, it really showed after he got back from an overseas deployment a couple years ago, once he got home, he just, it was he was struggling, really struggling. And I remember walking downstairs and he was on his video games, which is totally fine. I understand that now, if he needs, he needs that, and he's just, he just, like, breaks down. And I'm like, Dude, are you okay? And I see this notebook, the piece of paper that he's written, like, what's wrong with my brain? Just, like, scribbled, like, I was like, oh, okay, this isn't just, you'll be fine. I was like, Okay, can I make you an appointment? Yeah? And he was like, yes. So aside from his, you know, internal exhaustion, mentally, physically, all the extra demands of life, all the extra energy that he has to put in to daily life, just couldn't do anymore. And that's aside from some of the sensory experiences that you know going out in public was a lot harder because the noise affected him more. You know, going to Costco felt super claustrophobic because it was just too, too much for him, you know, he didn't want to go to concerts with me. It was, you know, too loud. And I used to take all those things personally, like, why don't you want to go with me to this thing? So the compassion piece really kind of cultivated in that with him being more open and vulnerable with me about kind of what was going on in his head and his body that you can't necessarily see, I'm like, Yeah, I can see that, you know, you're sleeping a lot and you don't have a lot of energy. I don't know what's going on in your head.
Laura 14:29
I also think this is, like, the perspective that I come from on this is, this is what makes me crazy about the fact that we even have to call ourselves neurodivergent, because I have a couple kids who are neurodivergent, I consider myself neurodivergent, like, and it just makes me insane, because it's like, yeah, our society is really fucking overstimulating, like I send my kid to school, like I went to her open house and even her teacher. There's energy I could feel was kind of constricted. Had some anxiety going on. I mean, yeah, it was parent teacher night, whatever. But still it was like, I was like, I can feel the energy from this woman alone that I know without a doubt, my sensitive little nugget who picks them on all that shit when she's out in public. Yes, I know she can feel that, and it's like a kind of shake it off, right? And I'm like, that's just one environment. But I'm like, think about what how overstimulating this world is. And just when we came onto this planet as humans, we did not have even close to what goes on in society now, not even close. And so it's like, yeah, then we label ourselves as neurodivergent, and as much as Yes, I agree, that validates us and gives us a space to start to understand ourselves, it's also like a freaking byproduct of how stimulating. Like, there's nothing wrong with you if you are neurodivergent. There's nothing wrong with Scott that he gets overwhelmed with this shit. It's just like, Dude, I actually tick more like a natural human who originally came to this planet and wasn't surrounded with millions of people and noises and technology and lights and all of that. It's like, can we actually learn from the simplicity of like, that's what we're actually meant to return to, and that's what I feel. This kind of quote, unquote, mix of symptoms is here to, like, invite us into recognition. Of it's such a blessing. Like you said, it's compassion. And it's also like, thank you. Like, thank you for reminding me how just being in presence with one another can be something that we sink into further in a way that feels really natural between us, and not how we're supposed to connect.
Sam 16:51
Yes, yes, not how we're Yeah, not the typical societal way of this is, this is how you do it, and if you don't do it that way, then you're wrong.
Laura 17:02
Right. Like, if you don't go to a concert with me, if you don't do what I'm supposed to what I want to do, then this is not a partnership. And if we don't communicate this way, then our marriage is suffering. Or we are not close enough, or we are not intimately connected in the way that we're supposed to be.
Sam 17:19
Yes, yes. And that's funny that you, you bring that word up, because, you know, we've we've been married for 16 years this month, we've lived a lot of life together, and, you know, we've gone through some shit, and we've made it this far, which is amazing, and I've never felt as emotionally intimately connected with him as I do now after we have started this journey. Because once he really started opening up to me about his own feelings and experiences, I was like, Oh, I really like this. This is a kind of a different level for us, that we're going into a vulnerability in a different way.
Laura 18:08
That’s serving your entire family, like even your kids, like you're also humble enough and open hearted enough to receive what's coming through him and like, be Like, Oh, wow, that piques my interest, and it actually leads to me being more interested in you and understanding you, and then our children and we actually come closer as a family. It's just so beautiful, and it's a beautiful model that you are offering to the world so that they can witness how this can this kind of thing can bring people closer, when you hear so much about autism being a disconnection from from social interaction and an inability to come into intimacy or or less of an ability to experience.
Sam 18:59
-all the things that's pathologized before.
Laura 19:03
It doesn't have to be that way. It's like, how are you receiving it? How are you receiving this human being and just learning how they tick.
Sam 19:10
Yes, yes and yeah, not, not forcing him to be something that he's not. And really being aware of accommodations that can be made and how we can, again, how we can make things easier. Like, I wanted to go to the concert. You don't, that's okay. I'm gonna go by myself. Yeah. Like, totally fine. But before I understood that, you know, there was, there was some hard feelings there of like, why don't you want to come with me? And just learning? Like, our communication styles are very different, and that's been a struggle for us. Our entire marriage is he's super direct, he's super blunt, and it can come off really rude and like he will, he's always said like, in those moments where we both. To know what's happening. He's like, I'm not trying to be an asshole. And I'm like, Well, you just saying that you kind of are being an asshole. And it's not that I can't feel like it came off rude, but now I understand like his way of communicating is different than mine, and it's not wrong. He wasn't being me and he wasn't being malicious. He was just saying it like it is, and I had to give some grace for that, and also work on my communication. Of like, I need to be more direct. I need to be less passive aggressive, because that's been part of issues that we've had, is me just not saying what I mean. And he is like, just say it. Don't make me beat around the bush. Just say it.
Laura 20:44
So there's something very refreshing in that.
Sam 20:48
I mean… huge, huge, huge changes in so many ways that if, if, if we didn't know any of this, I mean, life would not be as good as it is in through this lens as it is right now,
Laura 21:04
I agree with you, because, you know, my son experiences and explain or expresses the similar thing that you're expressing about Scott, where it's just like, this very direct, and it's like, could you just not be an asshole, right? And he'll say, like, I know I was kind of an asshole, right? Same kind of thing. And it's just interesting to me, because I remind myself and my husband is, I'm like, Listen, he's got some spectrumy shit going on here, right? Like, best I know how to see this shit. Like, you've got some spectrumy shit going on. Oh, I God damn it. Like, I mean, I feel like everybody's got certain threads of certain things, right? And so I was like, it's for me, it's always pausing and feeling his heart. It's always pausing and just connecting, like my energy to his energy, feeling his heart, and also, like you said, not making him into somebody that I want him to be, or that I think society wants him to be, or that he should be in order to be successful. It's like, dude, this kid wants to spend a lot of time alone. Now, don't get me wrong, he is 15. Like, he's in the face, right? He's in the face. However, that being said, it's like, yeah, because he's always going, man, he's and this didn't happen as much over the summer, but guess what? He's in school all day, every day, with humans, and he's involved in all these activities. He's a go getter. He goes after shit. He's like a he's an officer in science Olympia. It's like he's doing his shit. And guess what, he needs space.
Sam 22:39
You have to recover after that.
Laura 22:41
You do. I mean, I do like I like to spend every single time I've taken the Myers Briggs Personality Inventory, which is neither here nor there. I mean, at this point, it's just kind of fucking fun. But every time I'm between 86 and 94% introverted, like, I love spending the vast majority of my time alone. And it's like he's allowed that doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean that I'm being rejected, or that he hates family or that, nope, like he's choosing his own and he's he's literally said that to me. He's like, I'm choosing to do me, like I'm choosing my own happiness. And I'm like, I'm so proud of you.
Sam 23:19
Oh, what a great… as a mom, like…
Laura 23:24
I miss you. Right.
Sam 23:26
Like I would love to see you.
Laura 23:28
I know I want to hang out, but when I, you know, release that whiny, gripping desire and remember and lean back he shows up.
Sam 23:38
Yeah, that's exactly I've been experiencing that with my oldest right now, who's 11 of like, yeah, a lot of time in her room. And like, well, we're gonna make the best of it when she's not in there, so that she's not so annoyed by me. Like, yeah, bugging her, but yeah, I mean, the world being such a sensory overload as it is, and even more so for people with neurodiverse, divergent brains that are like hyper connected and taken all this extra information, and it's just even more overwhelming. You spend a day out in the real world, out at school, out at work, you come home and like you're more exhausted than maybe someone who is neurotypical would be from all the demands and all the noise and all the lights. And my youngest daughter, when she comes home, she's nine, we painted her room like a dark, dark blue, because she kind of wants it to be like a cave. So she goes in her room, she puts on her headphones, she's on her tablet, and she just chilled in there for like an hour. You You have to recover. You have to have downtime. There is a cost to socializing, even if it's something you enjoy. There's a cost to being out in the world that you have to balance that back out some. Where, and we've kind of adapted that, you know, after school, after work is we all probably spend an hour doing our own thing and not putting pressure on anybody to do anything else, and just kind of recover.
Laura 25:15
And what's wild about this is that when you take that space and you're offered the opportunity to have that space. It's actually it actually shows how much more there is a natural desire for intimacy and these people that are labeled as not wanting it or avoiding it, or or not being capable of it, because that's one of the things that I've learned with my son too, is that when I it's like, okay, well, Laura, if you want to spend time with him and you desire to be in space with him, just go into his space. Like he's all, he always welcomes me into his space. So it's like, okay, so I'll go into his space. And it's when I open and share my heart, not just, Oh, hey, this is what's on my mind, but like, what's deeply on my heart. Because these are the people who may be quieter in social situations, but see fucking everything, and the shit that comes out of his mouth blows me away like chills through my whole body. And I'm like the wisdom from this kid. And I know we can say that about kids in general, right? Like they're so wise all of this, but it's just it's wild for for a kid who's quiet, spends all this time by himself, and then comes out with these like insights, like we were talking one time about his relationship with my husband, which has, historically, it's gotten a lot better, but has historically been more tension filled. And we were talking about this one day, and I said to him, yeah, like, I had like, big conversations with dad about this, and, you know, and XYZ, whatever we were talking about. And my son said he was like, Mom, oh, because I said, You got to understand. You've got to shift this with Gabriel. You've got it. And he's like, Mom, that's not fair to say to him. And I'm like, What do you mean? And he's like, Well, if I expect people to completely understand and flow with my ADHD brain, then I also need to come into acceptance about how other people see the world and how they interact with the world, and how they interact in relationships, and that's the way that he does it. And I get to choose to come into acceptance with that. And he says, and still choose me and my own happiness and how I like to do things. And I'm like, Oh, you compassionate, motherfucker. I would thank you for teaching me to be even more compassionate towards your father. Wow, like just because, when they're given that space, like you're talking about, they have that space to cultivate the natural perspective that can literally change so many people and open so many hearts if we give them that opportunity
Sam 28:02
that's beautiful, holy shit.
Laura 28:05
And it's a perspective we don't feel exists inside of them when they don't say it. But it's like when I take initiative to open my heart just because I want to with him, instead of expecting him to open it to me in this way, that way, it's like, no, I'm just going to open my heart. It's like the natural extension of him comes out, and I'm like, oh my gosh, what's going on in there all the time? It's amazing.
Sam 28:29
It's amazing. That's gorgeous as a parent, to hear that from your kid. And just think of like having even a sliver of that perspective at that age is massive. Like, I'm like, that's something I'm learning now in my mid 30s. Of like, how do we hold someone else's experience and our own at the same time? Of like, the example I think of is when one of my kids is, like, verbally, Simming and making a lot of noise, and, like, my other one is super overstimulated by it, right? It's like you have this mismatch, and neither of them are wrong.
Laura 29:10
Like, yeah, could you help me with that?
Sam 29:15
Headphones. Headphones all the time. So when one kid is overstimulated, you put on your headphones, you listen to your music. Like my kids bring them everywhere. They're both in the car with headphones on, but before they came everywhere with us, it was like one kid was melting down over the other one making their noises. Neither of you are wrong.
Laura 29:40
Correct. No, it's and I completely agree, and I say that all the time, and yet the still build. And I get it from both sides.
Sam 29:48
Yes, it's hard. It's really hard. And you know, to not make anyone feel bad, to not shame anyone for either. Outside of that, like, it takes a lot of patience and a lot of intentionality to be like, Hey, I know you're super overstimulated right now. I also know that you, like, need to, need to do your stims. Is there any way we can do those stims, either quieter or, can one of you move somewhere else? Can we put headphones on? Like, how can we accommodate so that you both are still getting what you need with what we have right now? And sometimes there is not much you can do, but sometimes there is, so we've kind of gotten creative. Of, hey, you need to do this. Like, let's go, let's go in the basement and do it so that your sister is not super overstimulated, like
Laura 30:43
this is really helpful. Yeah, no, this is a very helpful reminder. Thank you. And this is why both of my children are percussion players, because they can take their stims, yes, the drums, and they both enjoy receiving that. So that's a reminder too, because it brings them both into a space where they can share in something, right? And I think that what you're also reminding me of as a parent, which is the where we'll kind of end here to wrap up, so that people can receive this and digest it, is that as a parent, I recognize and continue to bring myself into humility around when the stims are bothering me, which, for those who don't know what stims are, it's like those constant noises, like those repetitive noises or or actions or behaviors, right? But premise noises and, and for me, it's listen some days I don't even hear it like even hear it. And some days I actually join in, and we stim together, yes, and some days it agitates the fuck out of me. And so it's also being in recognition, that when it agitates me, it's not stop it. You know, it is a Laura, you need to recognize your own level of overstimulation right now, like you need to go take care of you and center you, or take this kid into doing something that you can both appreciate. That brings soothing, right? Yes, and honestly, repetition, because in that it's like, like, walking is a big one with that one for me, because it's like, let's just get outside and move. And it's like, this repetitive motion that we're both invited into. But it's, yeah, I think that's, that's a piece that I wanted to share too, just from a parent's perspective. So do you have anything that you want to add there before we close?
Sam 32:40
Part of that is learning to advocate for yourself, right? Of, like, I'm over simulated. What do I need to do for me right now? Do I need to, like, leave this situation if I can, even if it's like, I gotta go to the bathroom. I use that one all the time. Like, why do you pee so much? Again, I know weird. Like, what do I need to do for me and or, like, how can I help accommodate them and and being open and flexible to some of those accommodations that might be a little off the hook that might not be normal or, like, socially acceptable, like people might look at you kind of funny, like when your kid is doing cartwheels in the middle of Walmart, and I'm like, you're not hurting anybody, right? And I used to, I used to be like, Stop, no, don't do that in here. And then it was like, Okay, there's no one else in the aisle. You can do it. And now I'm just like, she just, she'll do cartwheels in the parking lot, as long as she's safe, correct? Like, it's, it's okay. So yeah, kind of learning your own boundaries and your own needs, and how to tell someone like, hey, totally cool that you like you were doing this right now. I need to take a break right now. I'm overstimulated. And that's that's some language that we all use now, is I'm really overstimulated right now, and then we kind of all know, okay, like, let's be a little quieter. Let's give them some space. Just having that has been huge for us, and even the kids, as young as they still are, when I say that, like, they get it, yeah. Doesn't mean necessarily they're going to just like, stop, but they understand so being honest about that too.
Laura 34:49
Yes, being honest. Thank you. Because we were just having that conversation as a family too, where my oldest was like, Yeah, I mean, I think she was talking. Um, about my son, or, I can't remember, but she was talking about how, oh, yeah, well, I'll ask you a question, and then it takes you forever to answer, right? And this is what you were saying with you. And Scott earlier, yes, takes you forever to answer yes. And it's funny, because she is more on the Type A end, and has, I don't think she has any inkling of neurodivergence and anywhere within her field, and she's just a go getter. And so her patience, because she's so efficient that her patience for that response is also very minimal, yes, so it's like, if I take a breath before I speak, she's like, asking me again. So we've got that but. And so I said to her in that I was like, dude. I was like, I do the same thing. And so does Madeline, my other kid. I was like, because by the time you've asked me again, that sentence you asked me is still playing in my head, like, and I'm just pausing, because this is the other piece I want people to recognize. I mean, I could talk about this forever if you can't tell so we're gonna keep talking. But that's the other piece. Is that I think that what we don't get credit for when there's a pause there is that I actually desire to respond intentionally, and I desire to respond from a space that feels like me and not just like a reactive thing, because and so now we laugh, because my youngest just, she'll, when you were talking about using the language of overstimulation, she'll just be like, I it's just a slower processing speed day. And I'm like, exactly that's all is. She's like, I'm just, it's just a slow process. And that's what I'll say, is, I'm like, it's not, I'm actually taking what you said probably more seriously than the person who's just responding, because I'm like, feeling into it. I'm absorbing it. I'm like feeling in my heart, and I'm responding you know what I'm saying?
Sam 36:48
I yeah, I'm laughing, because the that has been a thing for me and Scott for years of you know, we'll be laying in bed late at night, get into some, you know, conversation of conflict that we'd had, and he will say something, and I will just be quiet. And for years it was like, okay, then I guess I'm just gonna go to bed. And I'm like, No, like I am. I'm processing this. I want to be intentional with my answer, and now that we can communicate that better and be honest about that and be clear about it. I can say, like, I just need some time to process what you said.
Laura 37:28
For me, it's like-
Sam 37:30
And he's like, okay, cool.
Laura 37:31
And I think it's like it's defying the pace of society, just like when you said you can do cartwheels in Walmart, like it's not hurting anybody. I'm defying the societal convention right to choose this, because actually, I don't have to respond right away, so that you can go do your thing, and then I can go to like, can we just appreciate that we have space to do this. We have space to be in space with each other, and for me to actually, like, immerse and soak and marinate in what you brought forward, because I really enjoy the delicious presence and space together. And I'm, I'm I'm maximizing its presence. That's what I'm doing. But I get it, because we're so used to just back and forth, back and forth, and I think texting is a big thing with this too. It's like, you text and it's like, well, you text back right away, and it's this instant gratification, right where it's like, Thank you, like for me, it's like a thank you. I love receiving you. I love being in space with it, you know. And so I love that you guys have this this communication and this understanding, because it's a beautiful example for the world. And thank you so much for being here and for sharing all of these lessons and just, we call them idiosyncrasies of being human, but really they're just unique energies that we all get to be curious about. We learn about each other and learn how to be in relationship with each other. And I'm going to put your a link to your podcast in the show notes and any other ways that you guys can get in touch with Sam if you have questions or you feel like, oh my gosh, this is what I'm seeing, or this is what's going on. Does this sound like it's neurodivergent, right? And I'm sure she has resources to point you in the right direction. Yeah?
Sam 39:16
If I don't know, I will point you somewhere that we'll know more.
Laura 39:20
Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful for this space together and for what I've learned just being in space beauty today, and we will all see we will see you very, very soon on another episode of the podcast, or in either of our worlds. Have a beautiful day.
Sam 39:36
Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
