Laura 0:01
Welcome back to episode six of soul talk. I'm here with Nino and Jenna, and we are talking about surrender. Today. I want to start us off by talking about something that is very present in the field right now, this concept of duality, which really exists within this dissonance that's coming up in people's fields, whether this is within a societal political realm, or whether this is coming up within their relationships or within their job or where they want to go. It's feeling like this, do I go this way or that way? Do I Do I side with this? Do I side with that? Right? And it's kind of like this duality that you feel like you're in the middle, but the middle of a tussle rustle. And so when we feel like we're in that space, we can really get into the mind. We can really even get into the body and ask the body of like, okay, where's the resistance? When, really, we're not meant to meet something like that. And the 3d at all, sometimes, right? Sometimes, especially when we are in this back and forth, back and forth and, and this is back in the therapy days, we used to make pro and con lists, when people used to get into this space, and we would be like, Okay, make a list of the pros. Make a list of the cons. And then what I would always do was say, weight them, you know, like each thing you wrote down weighted on a scale of one to 10, and then average it out so that you kind of see where you err on the side of but that is still a mind and maybe a little bit of heart and some body of an exercise. And really what happens is, when we get into any kind of a tussle in the 3d to me, the way that I find resolution is bringing that to source, bringing that into surrender and saying, like, I'm not meant to be at this level of intense dissonance. I don't have to operate at this level of intense dissonance. There can be an easier way. There's always an easier way. And so it's what, what am I being invited to surrender to? Where am I being invited to soften? Because I consider softening to be a big piece of surrender as well, and really bring this into divine space and just be in presence with this in divine space, to allow this to soften and kind of clarify as energies, instead of kind of joining the battle with my mind and body and trying to tease it out with as this, like extra knight in shining armor who's coming in to Get involved on the battleground. You know what I'm saying? Instead, I think that it's better to just kind of like rest back and not get involved in it, and instead, just allow it to be seen and witnessed. So what are your thoughts on this?
Jenna 2:35
I just what was coming forward for me while you were talking, was that the most pure form of service that we can provide to ourselves and to others is surrender, because it's just surrendering to being used by the Divine Right, and it's not a and I think that when we talk about surrender. We can really get into a passive place, and we can get into passive surrender. So it's not saying, like, I don't want to tease this out in the mind and in the human and just be like, Okay, fuck it. I'll do whatever. You know what I mean. It's not necessarily like that. It's more of an active surrender of I will be led. I will allow myself to be led, and I will act on that, what I what I'm being given, and where I'm being pulled, right? And it's the surrender in that, and its surrender in resistance as well.
Laura 3:37
What do you mean by that, surrender and resistance
Jenna 3:41
In feeling like maybe this isn't the place where I act, or feeling that, that edge, right? And being like, No, I'm going to surrender into that, and I'm going to follow where I feel like I'm being led, even if it feels a little sticky in the human a little nervous system, right? That's what I mean.
Laura 4:03
Yeah, that makes sense. I like that. And this concept of being in a passive place, right? Like we're not meant to throw up our hands. We're meant to be a witness of it, not a I'm throwing up my hands in desperation, and I can't deal and therefore I'm handing it over. Instead, it's just like, No, I'm intentionally bringing this into a decisive place energetically. So I'm I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you. Nino, what thoughts do you have, honey?
Nino 4:28
Yeah, the things that kept coming up for me were, anytime that I've experienced this dissonance when I'm in my most centeredness, the dissonance can kind of fade away once I bring it to the divine. And the way that I bring it to the Divine is through prayer, through meditation, like simple movement based meditation, where I can't get stuck in the mind because I'm moving. I'm doing some sort of action, like taking a walk, you know, working in the yard, doing some prayer. That's a little bit more steeped in devotion and less steeped in the mind, and that allows me to just call upon my guides and just bring to the table the feelings. Because when we surrender, we're not saying that there isn't anxiety, that there isn't dissonance, that there isn't this, you know, shakiness in us. We're just saying, I'm willing to bring this to the table, to be witnessed, to be seen, to be felt, and I don't have to fix it right. A lot of people think that surrender fixes a problem, and it does, but it does in a kind of by proxy. It does it because you're no longer attaching and grasping to something that you think you need to solve. And that's the beauty of surrender. And where surrender is not a passive thing. It is an action. It is a decision to make of I'm not going to get lost in the sauce. I'm not going to start grasping for something that I can't control here. And even if I can control it, I don't want to control it from my mind or from my nervous system. So yeah, that's kind of what was coming up for me.
Laura 6:04
I like that you brought up the the dichotomy with it around control, because I think that's a really big piece, right? Is is this concept of So, if you're not in surrender, are you in control? I mean, not really. It's a spectrum, right? It's a spectrum. I think we're always unfolding in our embodiment of surrender. And I think that there's some areas that we are meant to be more actively decisive and engaged with the mind, and there's some areas where we are not, you know, I think particularly when it comes to dissonance. I love how you were talking about, you know, it doesn't mean that it's not there. It doesn't mean we're not acknowledging it. But what comes up for me, there is this also this surrender to the fact that we are of service and that, you know, even if it is dissonance that's coming up in his present, and I'm allowing that to be there, and I'm witnessing it, I'm also not personalizing it like you talked about, that less that less attachment piece that allows the control to to release a little bit and and you're not attached to having it be fixed. Like, okay, well, if I surrender this so that I can get an outcome, that's not really surrendering it, right? That's not really surrendering it. Instead, it's like, I'm going to be in present, witnessing of this, and recognize that I'm providing space for this energy to refine, for this energy to shift, for this energy to become what it is meant to become, whether I think that serves me or it does not, from a conscious understanding perspective, right? I know that the energies that are coming through me are here to be witnessed and received by the collective because I've raised my hand and decided to be of service, right? And so if that's the case, I think that when, when I think about surrender, and that's in that way, it's also surrendering the attachment to this being, meaning anything about me, right? Or being mine, like it's not my struggle, it's not my dissonance, it just is the presence of an energy in my field. So what's coming up for you, Jenna?
Jenna 8:02
I was thinking about the aspect of control in that I think that we are always, I think that we're always in control, just because we're sovereign beings, and because we have that choice, we have free will. So even in the act of surrender, we are choosing it. And so there is a sense of, quote, unquote, control, but not the traditional, traditional sense of control, not like I have to, you know, see this through step by step, and say, Okay, I'm controlling, and I'm watching each thing, and I'm keeping this in a container, and I'm, you know, not that sense of control. And I think in that way, a lot of the time, it helps people who want to be in control, because you're saying, Okay, I'm making this choice, and it is my choice to be surrendered to be whatever you choose to be. It's like, okay, I'm choosing to be in control by allowing myself to not be the driver in that type of sense, right? So it allows you to have that sense of like, I don't know if it's like nervous system stability or what, but it's this sense of calm and knowing that this is your active choice.
Nino 9:07
When I was listening to Jenna talk about control and like, the traditional sense of control versus this more sovereign choosing free will choice, I kind of started thinking like the way that we perceive control right now, or the way that we try to manage control, for us, it's more like a manipulation we're trying to manipulate, still an outcome which is a different type of control than free will and free choice. So control and choice here are really the differentiator, right? How we define control here, because we can have things that kind of assist us throughout the day, that makes us feel a little bit more in our choice, by setting up routines, by saying, okay, when I feel this way, this is what I'm going to do, rather than letting it be a willingness. Really agree for all of I'm just going to be taken by my emotions and by all of these thoughts that I can't kind of filter, right? Because we try to control thoughts, and I don't think it's a bad thing to control thoughts in a way that allow you to function, but it's more of a filtration than a I need to grasp these thoughts and like maintain the range on these in such a way that I don't leave room for fluidity and room for movement and kind of dissipation and dissolving of that anxiety. So in that case, how it comes back to surrender. Surrender is that that moment of instead of grasping on this and tightening on this, I'm going to just loosen the grip enough for it to be able to move through enough for the energy to just do what it needs to do. So that way, now I can come back in a state of centeredness and a state of calmness and a state of clarity, because really, what we're seeking is clarity. I think most of us are okay with things not always going our way, but we need to have some sense of clarity in order to be able to feel like we're moving through it, and surrender allows us to kind of take a step back in a bird's eye view onto a situation, rather than being right up front and up close. So that way our perception is so narrow that we can't see a way out of it.
Laura 11:30
That's really important. Everything you just said was really important because it's it's true, it's that and I and what I like that you brought forward, which is where I was going to go next, was this clarity, right? That that's ultimately what you're seeking, is clarity. But it's not always conscious clarity. It's a sensation of clarity. It's like a sensation of surrender within the body. And so it's when I'm in divine space and I'm letting the energy do what it needs to do, like you said, that energy is clarifying. And so I can feel clarified, even if I don't have a quote, unquote answer, yet I feel clarified. And so I'm going to then move from a more grounded, clean, pure space, and automatically have a bird's eye view on that situation, because I'm not as attached to it, right? I'm more in sensation and less in the mind. And so I think that when we talk about surrender, it's almost like a a handing over of the mind temporarily. And I wonder if surrender is something you guys would consider to be a temporary state that we choose to enter into, one that we desire to ultimately actualize more consistently. But is surrender, if it's a choice, right? And we choose to enter into a surrendered space, and we can feel that sensation, then technically, it is a temporary, frequent state that we embody, that we kind of come in and out of. So for me, what I would love is to allow surrender as a frequency to become a deeper, more consistent embodiment. And is that something that is is meant as human beings, right? What would that look like? So Jenna, hi.
Jenna 13:31
Yeah, were you seeing me thinking? It was making me think about how I was going into this whole philosophy mindset, about how Aristotle says happiness is habitual. And so I started thinking because, and I used to, I remember writing a huge essay being like, No, it's not off, but like, it's making me wonder, Is that the same type of thing, like with surrender? Like, would you consider that to be a habitual state? Like to practice it so much that it then becomes a state, right? Similar to, quote, unquote, happiness, because you could get anywhere by having a habitual action, yeah. So that's what I was thinking about when you brought that up, and then to say, is it somewhere we where we want to be and want to embody as humans? And on a consistent basis, I would say yes and no, mainly because you want to have that, that the freedom of fluctuation, of being in a frequent space, of how much can you I don't know. I wanted to talk about being a driver and surrender, because if you're entirely surrendered, how much of your soul action remains in surrender? How much of your soul desire do you then? But I guess that's that's the difference in the passive and the active surrender, right? I see your. Face, what are you going to say to me?
Laura 15:01
No, I'm just thinking.
Jenna 15:02
I have so many thoughts.
Laura 15:04
I'm very aware. I feel like, isn't there duality within surrender Absolutely, because it's a frequency. So like, I can be in the frequency of happiness and also be in pain. So it's like I can be in the frequency of surrender at the same time that I'm present with the current unfolding in the 3d
Jenna 15:30
Yes, so I think that's probably what I'm getting at there, is that there's, you don't want to just see it as a consistent one note state, right? You want to be able to fluctuate in and out between everything else. And I think that's where my mind just got jumbled and trying to verbalize that, yeah.
Laura 15:51
And I think it's also like bringing the little, the little energetic fractals and nuggets of surrender into other moments, right? Like, if you picture it all as, like, a, you know, a graph where you have, like, what do they call it? The the one with all the dots on it? A scatter scatter plot. Thank you, scatter plot. I knew plot was in there. Thank you. So, a scatter plot. So, like, you see all these scatter plots, and it's like, Okay, I'm gonna bring this scatter plot on top of this scatter plot. You know what I'm saying. And it's like I can have the surrender scatters on top of the dissonance, scatters on top of the you know? And so I think it's just bringing elements of it into that. That's what it's feeling like to me. Nino, what you got?
Nino 16:37
Yeah. So I definitely, definitely do think that phases of surrender are something to be embodied. And I call these more phases, because I think the natural cycle of the human being is to get clarity on something, move towards it, have some dissonance, and then need to re clarify, right? So there's a point in that cycle where things aren't going where we want them to go, or things are shifting. You know, our desires shift, the frequency of what we're creating shifts, and that's where as humans, we kind of get stuck in. But this is what I was going after. And when it doesn't look like that, we start to kind of get wobbly and shaky of am I even doing this right? And those are the moments where we get to say, Okay, I'm going to surrender and just see where it goes. And nine out of 10 times it's going back into something that we're like, oh, that's a more clear frequency of what I was trying to create anyway. And it worked out. But in order to get there, we do need to have moments of surrender. And I think the moments of surrender and the phases of surrender can happen throughout the entire day. It doesn't have to be, you know, three months I'm going to do this, and two months I'm going to do this, and then three months I'm going to do some surrender. No, it's every day. You have the opportunity at every minute, every hour, to surrender something. And we're not saying you surrender it all. You don't have to surrender everything at the same time, but you can surrender little things here and there throughout your day and be in a better state of attunement, alignment with what is happening. And that's not to say that you're now in resonance with what's happening, but you're okay with having dissonance. And we need to be okay. We need to be okay with cultivating a sense of I am still centered and clear, even if there is dissonance, and I think that's where surrender comes in. So yeah, surrender is definitely a temporary state, and it's a state that we get to come into and out of multiple times throughout the day, and that, in itself, is an embodiment. Because even if we're embodied, and we think, Oh, I popped out of my embodiment and I went into my head, that's okay, you are still human, like we are allowed to be human, and we don't have to be this in this divine, you know, kind of Whoa. I'm doing everything perfectly all the time. Embodiment is I am human and I'm divine, and I get to be in dissonance and resonance and surrender all at the same time.
Laura 19:20
Yeah, that's a really beautiful way of putting it. And I think that it feels like that overlay of the scatter plots I was talking about, because the other pieces, even if you are in that space where you've kind of slipped back into the mind, you you're still in that embodiment, because you're still open, you're still connected to the Divine, and those little scatter plot dots are still there for you. And so if you are being invited into something, to into a space of surrender in that moment, you're you're going to feel that, you're going to receive that, because your embodiment is there. And so when I was saying, like, I would love to embody this more consistently, it's just being more in tune, that attunement piece. She were talking about Nino just being even more in tune, or finding that attunement by simply being in relationship with the divine, and knowing that for me, when I get into it state, that's the place that I go, right is into space with the divine, and knowing that the invitation will arrive there, the invitation will arrive there, and sometimes that's going to be surrender, and sometimes that's going to be nope, I'm moving right, because I already know, and I already have the clarity. So I also like that you brought up that concept of clarifying dissonance, re clarifying, and that re clarification can be instant. It doesn't have to always be a return to the Divine for that. Because, again, we're always in tune. It's once we've, you know, decided to make this a devotional practice for ourselves. But this brings us back to that concept that Jenna was bringing up about, is surrender habitual if you practice it a lot. And I think that it can be, I think it becomes easier, and I think that we can this is how we rewire our nervous systems, right? And bring ourselves into a space where we are going to remember more? Oh, I'm naturally guided to do this. Now, I'm naturally guided to do that now, at the end of the day, it's still a choice. It can be habitual, but it's still a quote choice. Just, I mean, just like habits are, habits are choices too. But I think sometimes habits can come from a dissociative space, you know, sometimes our habits can come from such like an autopilot space that we're not conscious and in refinement of them. And I think with this, there's more discernment there, and there's more intentional choice and sacred decision. And I think that's what really brings surrender forward for me, is this concept of sacred decision. Um, yeah, that's what I'm gonna go with. What? What are you feeling? Jenna, something just happened to you.
Jenna 21:48
I just really liked “sacred decision.” That was hot. I really liked that, but, but also I was just thinking, like about clarity. I was, I was thinking, you know, when we don't have, or we feel like we don't have clarity on anything at all, we can just say, have clarity in surrendering, like, there's just clarity in saying, I I'm surrendering, and that is clear. I don't care what comes of that. Like, there obviously, you know, more clarity will arrive in a certain like container that you have. But there is clarity in just simply surrendering and saying, This is what I'm doing right now. This is clear to me.
Laura 22:26
I think you're automatically clarifying your field and your awareness in that way, because what you're saying is, I'm not necessarily taking ownership of this, right? I'm not necessarily taking ownership, but I'm surrendering that, you know, starting this to higher awareness, right? I'm not just taking control within my mind and body and like, being like, Okay, I'm the one who has to fix this or do something with this, or know this.
Jenna 22:51
Yeah because I feel like surrender doesn't have a container at all. I feel like that's a that's a container less space, because anything can arrive within it. You're not boxing yourself in. I saw the question on your face.
Nino 23:03
I don't disagree that surrender doesn't have a container, but I do think that surrender gives us a frame. It gives us the scaffolding of being held where neither mind nor nervous system can help us right, because surrender is is the divine. It is the the unknown, known of being held. And when you are in surrender, if there was one person in your family or your friendship group that you can go to iron and just be like, I can load off on this person and know that they're still going to accept me and that they're going to tell me everything's going to be okay. That's kind of like your frame of containment, but you're surrendering everything that's bubbling up, right? And so when we're talking about surrendering to the Divine, surrendering to the sacred. The surrender itself is a frame, while it's not container. So it's not a box thing, but it is a frame of like the entire universe is holding you at this moment. And because you know that you have this even if you don't know it consciously, you're like your DNA, your your soul knows, oh, that's right. There is a bigger frame here that I can lean on, even when the psyche is confused because a isn't showing me a container.
Laura 24:35
That's exactly it, right there. It feels like a frame. It feels like a container, because you are held within it, and it is a reliable structure to lean upon. Yet, in reality, there are no edges to it. So both are correct, right? Because technically, technically, yeah, like you said, surrender is divine, right? And the Divine is infinite. There. Are no edges to it, but it does feel you do feel held, you feel contained. You feel like there's a scaffolding and a structure there for you, because there is, there absolutely is. And it feels that way in the human and I think that is purposeful, because we do desire to feel that. Like you said, if you're going to a friend and you're unloading or something, you know what? I mean, like you want to feel held it's like that CO regulation with the divine. So yeah, I do tangibly feel that CO regulation with the divine, as well as knowing that, like Jenna said, anything and everything can arrive in this space and it can go anywhere, right? Yeah. So this is really cool. Are there anything? Is there anything else that you guys want to bring forward, around surrender, that you feel is needed to wrap this up for today that's coming forward for you.
Nino 25:57
The only thing I wanted to add, Laura's from when you were saying earlier that you get to decide whether you're surrendering or moving. And I think some thing that came up at that point was movement is also surrender, because you don't have to make a decision on where your movement is leading you, but you can make a decision of, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to move anyway. And that itself is surrender. So there's a duality in that too. Don't wait for absolute clarity if you have none, because the movement will bring you to clarity.
Laura 26:34
Yeah, I love that. And it's funny that you brought that up, because I was thinking about it earlier too, and I was like, let's go into a whole nother episode right now about divine timing and decision making, because that's, oh, that's a whole different tangent. Jenna, do you have anything else you want to add, Love? No, okay, ah, this feels really beautiful. And I would love to know in the comments, what really pinged your field today. What came forward that really gave you a point to be present with and to find your truth within surrender, as we said, is a state that is kind of in flux, and it's fluid and it's porous, and it's something that tangibly is going to feel different, not just depending on the person, but depending on the scenario you find yourself in. The surrender is going to feel different, and there's going to be different layers and levels of surrender depending on where, where you're surrendering, or what you're surrendering. And so it's presence with that, and allowing the divine to inform you in those situations is what is going to drive your actions, like Nino said, your next choices, your sensation, your presence with yourself and and your attunement as well and continued loyalty to coming back to this path. So thank you for being here. Thank you, ladies, and we'll see you very soon. Bye, for now. Bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
